24fandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Jimmy Kelly
Another day has come Below Blue Rook says we should leave the verifying that Berkin is the Greg Hartigan for another day - well I feel that day has come! Is the name only spoken once, at the start of Day 1: 8:00am-9:00am? Because I'm seeing the scene as follows: a large group of the Palmers and Secret Service come out of the elevator, and Aaron Pierce says "Berkin stay with the Senator". Greg Hartigan then holds the group back, telling them to wait. Pierce says it's clear, and then the only secret service agent who "stays with the senator" (accompanying him right to the limo) is this one, played by Emile Williams. Greg Hartigan still qualifies for an unnamed entry, as he has lines, but I'd say Emile Williams plays Berkin. Or is the name Berkin spoken elsewhere anywhere? PS, Emile Williams appears loads in Days 1-3 too, pretty much whenever Greg Hartigan is around--Acer4666 00:27, July 16, 2011 (UTC) :As well as Greg Hartigan not being called Berkin, I actually think his name is Jimmy (Secret Service). At the start of Day 1: 6:00am-7:00am, when Palmer gets out of the limo, Aaron Pierce says "let my man bring him in" and greg hartigan gets out of the limo to chase keith. Then Aaron says "alright Jimmy, stand down" into his earpiece and greg hartigan, with his hand on his earpiece, runs in a different direction and stands guard in the distance. I think Jimmy is the name of Hartigan's SS agent--Acer4666 20:27, August 1, 2011 (UTC) ::I believe you. That means that there is confusing about who Greg plays. --Station7 20:45, August 1, 2011 (UTC) : More awesomeness. I can't verify anything at the moment but if you're really confident you can page-move Berkin & his history to the new name, slide Emile Williams' guy to the vacant Berkin spot, & eventually we'll get to all those link fixes. I'm hoping Proudhug can weigh in though, beforehand, because if I recall correctly, he had a role in the original identification. 03:19, August 2, 2011 (UTC) ::Cool cool. I'll not do anything just yet - before I do I'd quite like to go through in detail all of Palmer's secret service guys during Day 1, maybe make a userpage about them. Then hopefully we can sort out who's who, I think there may be a few more unnamed ones with lines to add--Acer4666 08:10, August 2, 2011 (UTC) :::If no-one has a problem with this, I'll do the moves soon - looks like proudhug may be gone for a while--Acer4666 (talk) 20:53, December 7, 2011 (UTC) :: If you can wait 1 more day, I'll take a gander at this tomorrow and reply here. 07:56, December 9, 2011 (UTC) ::: Bah, as much as I want this to be accurate, I'm not sold on it. In 6am when Aaron calls off Jimmy, three men touch their earpieces and stand down. One is Greg Hartigan for sure, but on the right side of the screen for a moment another guy is touching his ear. Also can't forget the white dude that was running alongside Keith... that was definitely Secret Service too. ::: Also, I'm no sure Berkin applies to the Emile Williams bodyguard either. Rewatching that scene, Aaron speaks the name as he's descending a staircase. Hartigan and some other white dude, wearing eyeglasses, are paired up and stay with Palmer. Emile Williams also stays with the group but he couldn't have heard this order; and I'm pretty sure Aaron just asked the nearest guy to stay with the Senator until their next movement was cleared (that is, until Aaron calls for them next). If anything—since Hartigan was the closest to Aaron as he says this line (and stays closest to David until Aaron gets back), re-watching this scene now makes me believe this is his name more than earlier. 04:38, December 11, 2011 (UTC) :::: It's been a while but I revisited the first part of your post. The second guy you saw on the right of the screen is Aaron Pierce - I can provide a screenshot if necessary. Then the white guy that is running with Keith - I'm sure this is not Jimmy, as he doesn't actually stand down at all, just carries on running towards Keith. The scene is as follows: :::: 1. Keith and white dude running together, then motorcade pulls up. Hartigan exits, hand on his ear, saying "ill flank him on the right". Aaron says "let my man bring him in". (ie Hartigan tells Pierce he's gonna bring Keith in, then Pierce tells Palmer that "his man" is going to bring Keith in. Therefore, Hartigan = Aaron's man) :::: 2. Palmer says "call your man off". Aaron says "Jimmy, stand down". (ie, Aaron's man is called Jimmy) :::: Therefore, Greg hartigan = Aaron's man = Jimmy. To me it's very clear cut that Aaron's "man" is the guy that got out of the car, who was in radio contact with Pierce, who was called Jimmy. There weren't any other secret service agents present in the scene and it doesn't fit that running dude is Jimmy.--Acer4666 (talk) 15:22, April 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::: As for the second part, rewatched and Emile Williams is right next to Palmer when Pierce says "berkin stay with the senator", so he could definitely have heard. the pair of hartigan + glasses dude are a bit in front of the senator, while emile williams is right by him, so when the line is spoken it seems to make sense that Pierce asks the guy who is with the senator, to stay with him. This is then confirmed when Emile escorts him right to his limo door by the arm, while the other agents spread out to cover exits.--Acer4666 (talk) 17:19, April 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::: I follow for most of it, but how come it does not fit that the other dude, who arrived with Hartigan who also touched his ear, cannot be Jimmy? 05:19, April 23, 2012 (UTC) ::::::: Well the thing is - there is no other dude who arrived with Hartigan! The guy you saw as a third man was actually Aaron Pierce. The only 3 SS agents in the scene are Pierce, Hartigan and jogging dude, and jogging dude doesn't fit: ::::::: In my point number 1, it's the fact that Hartigan states to Pierce that he is going to bring Keith in, then Pierce relays that fact to Palmer saying "my man" (Man, singular) is going to bring him in. The jogging dude, although he does have his hand to his ear as well as Hartigan, doesn't seem to do anything other than carry on his leisurely jog, and certainly doesn't stand down in response to Aaron's order. And after it all he carries on running with Keith, without any indication from Aaron that hes allowed to go back to his duties. --Acer4666 (talk) 06:07, April 23, 2012 (UTC) Just another point if you check these scenes sometime - in the scene at the start of 8am-9am, after Pierce has referred to Berkin by his surname, he (or someone) says "Kelly hold on there" just as Greg Hartigan halts everyone. If you agree with the above, this would suggest his full name is Jimmy Kelly, but check it out and let me know what you think.--Acer4666 (talk) 14:41, April 23, 2012 (UTC) : Watching the jogging scene again, Hartigan and the jogging agent both touch their ears and they both break off from the Palmers after Aaron gives the order. It's true that the jogger keeps moving, but it's simply off in another direction to give them privacy. Aaron didn't say "freeze in place"—his order was essentially "don't physically restrain Keith"—and the jogger did just that, so I do disagree with you on the point that he "certainly doesn't stand down". If he did not stand down, he would have kept on going for Keith physically. : Additionally there are other things that make me pretty certain Jimmy is the jogger. The jogger was definitely the closest of the agents. Given that, imagine you are Aaron: you leave the limo, and you say "my man" referring to one of those two subordinate agents. One (Hartigan) is a guy who just left the limo too, and who isn't physically near Keith at all. The other is the official bodyguard who is specifically tasked with being at Keith's side, and is also pretty much right on top of him. Thoughts? 21:01, April 23, 2012 (UTC) :: My thoughts definitely remain that Hartigan is without a doubt Jimmy. It's the fact he is the only SS agent that arrives with Aaron, and actually states that he is about to restrain Keith, mere seconds before Aaron says that "his man" is about to restrain Keith. Do you honestly believe from watching the scene that jogging dude is Jimmy, or are you playing devil's advocate? I am in no doubt as to who is who--Acer4666 (talk) 23:39, April 23, 2012 (UTC) : No no you have to trust that I'm not playing devil's advocate in this instance. I do also believe that my interpretation of the events is the accurate one. As always it might be best if we got another person to weigh in. : To support what I'm saying, if you can check out the scene again, you can hear Hartigan saying something like "I'll flank him on the right" and he proceeds to do exactly that. Whereas the jogger is right on top of Keith and much closer for certain, and therefore in my mind the much more logical choice for being the man Aaron was talking about. 06:45, April 24, 2012 (UTC) :: I really think the dialogue makes it very explicit who he's talking to. Hartigan says he's about to bring keith in, and jogging dude is running too, so if at this point Aaron called off Jimmy I agree there'd be ambiguity and we'd go for the guy who's closer. However Aaron then says "let my MAN (singular) bring him in" , showing that he's ordered one person to bring Keith in. Given Hartigan's earlier statement over the radio to Pierce, that has to mean it's definitely Hartigan. Pierce then identifies this one man as Jimmy. :: We don't know that jogging dude is part of Pierce's team, or is even taking orders from him, but Hartigan was part of the team under Aaron throughout the day. Jogging dude even has a different comm device to Pierce and Hartigan (a headset with mic rather than the traditional secret service wire into the ear). I don't believe that Aaron, in the split second before calling off the apprehension of Keith, made an assessment of who was most likely to get to Keith first and called that person off but not the other one. Rather he called off the man he had sent, Hartigan, while Jogging dude carries on what he had been doing before, which is just keeping up with Keith for means of protection rather than apprehension. --Acer4666 (talk) 13:29, April 24, 2012 (UTC) :::Do I still have opposition on this?--Acer4666 (talk) 17:32, June 17, 2012 (UTC) :::: Well wasn't Aaron in charge of all the Palmers' security details? Additionally, it isn't a surprise to me that the jogger has a different earpiece, that's pretty standard since he's supposed to be "blending in" and it could be a cell phone headset commonly available to civilians. Since jogger and Hartigan both took orders from Aaron over the comm, and since jogger was closest the entire time, to me it's automatic that Aaron was talking about the jogger.(Again please trust I'm not simply trying to be devil's advocate here.) 04:42, June 18, 2012 (UTC) ::::: No, he wasn't in charge of them all - remember when he first arrives at the suite, he says "we've been told to add another layer of security" (ie, his team is in addition to the existing security). You say "jogger and Hartigan both took orders from Aaron over the comm", but there is nothing to suggest jogger was ever in radio contact with Aaron. We don't actually know he was secret service, perhaps he was part of a private security firm to protect the palmers, or even Keith's jogging buddy who wanted to speak on the phone while running (i know people who jog with a bluetooth headset in). Also, if Aaron was in radio contact with him, and jogger's job was to bring keith in, why didn't Aaron say to the jogger "ok, i'm coming in your direction in a limo, keep keith there till we get there"? Why did he let "his man" jog alongside keith for a while, then wait until he arrived and scared keith away before telling the jogger to go get him? Doesn't make sense. ::::: But even if that's not enough, again the dialogue makes it very clear-cut. It's practically a conversation between hartigan and aaron, ending with aaron confirming his name as Jimmy.--Acer4666 (talk) 17:03, June 18, 2012 (UTC) :::::: Last call for arguments against this...--Acer4666 (talk) 13:51, November 11, 2012 (UTC) ::::: Although I remain unconvinced and don't support the changes, I'm not going to object to anything further; this is the beauty of a wiki, stuff can happen without 100% consensus. One question: what should we do about the "Kelly" name drop? ::::: This seems like it will be a large undertaking. If you could summarize the changes that will be necessary, I can help if you want a second pair of hands. 05:05, November 13, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Thank you for the courtesy! I'll leave it a little longer to give anyone else a chance to chime in if they want. ::::::As for Hartigan being addressed as "Kelly", I'd say that as Kelly is a surname and not usually a male first name, and Jimmy is definitely a first name and not a surname, and the names were only used a couple of hours apart, that his full name is "Jimmy Kelly". ::::::The actual changes would go like (1) Move this page to Jimmy Kelly, then update all "Berkin" links to point to "Jimmy Kelly". (2) Move the content from Emile Williams' page to Berkin, then update all those accordingly (3) Verify all of Williams' appearances, and add him to the uncredited sections of each episode (4) Update Recurring characters, Character appearances pages accordingly. ::::::The only other spanner in the whole thing is that Emile Williams' resume lists his role as "Agent Paul", but that shouldn't affect anything really unless it's heard in-universe/on an official oou place. Interesting, though! I already e-mailed to ask about it and never heard anything--Acer4666 (talk) 01:29, November 14, 2012 (UTC) Bump: actor found I think this might be him; if I'm right, then we've figured out who the actor is. I'm not 100% though. Thoughts? – Blue Rook 21:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)talk : I was right: the name of the man in Berkin.jpg is Greg Hartigan! If you're interested how I reached this conclusion, read on, otherwise ignore the rest. : To begin: before I knew about the page for Berkin and Proudhug's search for all his appearances, I created an entry on 03:51, 2007 August 7 on the Unnamed Secret Service agents page for an agent credited for Day 3 8:00pm-9:00pm played by one Greg Hartigan. I assumed this was the agent visible in Image:SecServADay3.jpg, and created the article for him accordingly. I then found the page for Berkin, and realized this was the exact same man. In the interests of solving this mystery and verifying if the man in both pictures was Hartigan, I finally found a video store that carried "Love Stinks", a 1999 comedy which is the only other film for which Hartigan has IMDB information. I then sat watched the movie, hoping that a "Cousin Eddie" would appear. Not long into the film, when French Stewart was dancing with Bridgette Wilson in a planetarium, Stewart referred to his cousin, Eddie, and a brief shot of a man giving a salute is shown. It is Berkin! Same hair, face, everything... only difference is that he's out of his suit... and smiling. He only appears for a few frames, so I took a bunch of screens and will email them to anyone interested for some evidence. I have now merged the Unnamed entry into the Berkin page. : The only thing left is to verify if the character's name is actually Berkin (unless I'm missing something?) but I say we leave that for another day. 04:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC) Good job Blue Rook!!!! Comp25 04:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC) : Thanks a lot bud :) This is definitely one of my favorite solved mysteries! 04:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC) Mentioned Or Seen? I'm pretty sure Berkin is seen in the episode Day 1 8:00am-9:00am. But when Aaron Pierce talked to him, there were several agents in the room and it was currently in split screen making it hard to tell which one of the agents is Berkin. Another possiblity is that Pierce could have been talking to someone just outside where we don't see him. Again the split screen makes it hard to be sure. Should Berkin be classified as "Mentioned" or "Seen"? -WarthogDemon 16:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC) : Man, this is a tough call. There's a good chance he was seen in the episode, but since we don't know who he is, and we don't know who played him, should we just put mentioned. I'd have to watch the episode again before making an opinion. Anyone else? --Proudhug 19:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :: Whether or not the "Berkin" mentioned in Day 1 7:00am-8:00am is actually this actor, I still don't know for sure, but this guy can be seen in a lot of episodes. The actor's really good at making sure he's standing in shot or in front of the other extras. I'm pretty sure I got all of his first season appearances, but there are probably many more from S2&3. --Proudhug 16:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC) ::: I agree; he's turned up around David Palmer more times than I bothered to keep track of. Also I think this might be him; if I'm right, then we've figured out who the actor is. I'm not 100% though. – Blue Rook 02:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)talk :This guy was sure in a lot of episodes for such a minor character —The preceding unsigned comment was added by on 00:28, 19 June 2008 :: We list each time a character appeared bodily on the screen no matter how insignificant, so yes, he sure did appear often. I invite you to verify each appearance yourself if you have any doubts! I believe you'll find he was in every single one. – Blue Rook 05:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)talk :: Okay people, we have a picture of him (Image:Berkin.jpg). We know what he looks like. It doesn't matter how many agents were there in the room because we know which one Berkin is, (unless this picture is just a speculation). Now all we have to do is identify the actor! You know how the CTU agents would say, "Cross reference that image in our databases!" (or something like that) It's interesting that the actor chooses not to be credited. Comp25 21:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC) ::: I highly doubt he had the choice to be credited, and I think it's impossible that recurring background extras and per diem actors get paid the same as co-stars. I'm almost positive that the choice is in the hands of the 24 production crew, not the extras and actors. ::: Also, if you check the post above here called "Bump", I mention that I think this actor is the guy Greg Hartigan who might be the guy in the pic at that link. But it's just a guess and Hartigan's IMDB profile doesn't have pictures so we cannot be sure yet if this was Berkin. – Blue Rook 23:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)talk Maybe it's a stunt double or a crew member, like Bill Leaman Comp25 16:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Appearance Is this guy Agent Berkin? --William.Y.Fremont 14:12, April 1, 2011 (UTC) : No. --proudhug 17:52, April 1, 2011 (UTC)